Its a nice idea, if you are a member of the DP forums, you can add your profile to this DP forum member directory.

Submission rules

1. You must be Digital Point forums member to submit your profile.

2. Submit link to your member profile on Digital Point forums only. Example: http://forums.digitalpoint.com/member.php?u=xxxxx

3. Submit your profile to category of your expertise. That way you will get customers that need your service.

4. Describe your services or say few words about yourself.

5. Do not use selfpromtional terms in your services description. Example: best designer, most affordable etc.  

Here is the link to this directory of digital point members.

Share This

So what kind of question should be asked, I mean , I am not intereted in a meaningless interview. This guy knows about directories and the directory market……

Share This

The webs best list of quality directories has just got one of its regular updates released.

I’ve just been through the list of Paid directories on the Info Vilesilencer lists, and readjusted all the pricing and PR’s. There are a lot of changes across the board. Prices have come down on most directories and PR’s are trending upwards.

So what are you waiting for, get on over there and check it Dans list of paid directories.

Share This

Thanks for the interview, first of, I will introduce you with a specific mention of the great how to get out of the sandbox blog article you have (personally I think you hit it write on the head).

Patrick thanks for this opportunity. The Sandbox article http://www.linkbuildingblog.com/2006/09/secrets_to_beat.html was actually written by TLA’s Strategist, Andy Hagans.

Feel free to push any text-link-ads promo stuff as you see fit, but I am hoping for some useful info on your ads and directories.

For your information we have many directories running our affiliate banners but selling links not as many for sure.

Tell us a little about text-link-ads, were the idea and desire came from, and how its going.

Sure, out of college I co founded a reclaimed brick and stone business with my father called HistoricalBricks.com It was in 2000 when I learned about search engine marketing and it helped grow the brick business shipping bricks locally to a nationwide provider. I saw an opportunity to offer these same search engine marketing services to other small businesses so in 2001 co founded with my college roommate a pay per click management service.

Pay per click management services lead you into offering natural search engine optimization services for those same clients and that lead to learning the importance of inbound links into client’s websites. Put simply, the number and quality of inbound links to a website is a top factor in top natural search engine rankings.

This knowledge led to the creation of Text Link Ads Inc which we have been operating under since 2003. We have been growing every year and are constantly trying to improve our system for both our advertisers and publishers.

Ok onto the niche that my readers are interested in, Directories. We can divide your offering to directory owners into 2, selling links and capturing affiliate income. Lets start with the text link sales. What does a directory owner need to do to get into your program?

A directory owner needs a directory that has some link popularity and traffic. We have an acceptance algorithm that takes both into consideration when accepting new sites into our publisher program. You also need to support a server side technology in order to run our ad script. Any site can get into our affiliate program and make money by sending traffic to TLA.

Just how easy is it to install in a directory?

An experienced web master should have no problem installing our ad script.

What is your experience with your ad system in directories?

It really varies on the topic and quality of the directory. They can perform well if the directory has good traffic and link popularity.

Can your system allow a directory with strong internal categories to sell those pages as separate offerings? Or Is it limited to one site, other index page or sitewide for the moment?

It is possible and recommended to submit your main subject pages individually. This allows you to sell more spots off your directory and allows advertisers to target specific niches.

Ok now onto the affiliate part of your program. I have always considered your program fairly ideal for a directory since for the majority of directories most of there traffic are people looking for links! Do you have any stats you can share on numbers of directories using your system as an affiliate of text link seller?

We have approximately 10,000 affiliates but I am not sure how many are directory owners.

What converts better, a text link or a banner for your affiliate program inside directories?

Banner ads seem to drive more traffic but you can always run a banner along with a well placed text ad. Which of the banners is the highest converter? The best banner currently seems to be our “$100 in free Text Link Ads” banner.

Below is the banner that Andy refferes to. (pissstt, its an affilalte link)

Share This

At present the most common way to value a directory is to look at its toolbar PR. Everybody agrees that this is not a good way to value a directory, but all the other ways require so much more work that most simple stick to this very inadequate measuring stick. 

Here are what I consider to be the 2 key core parameters that should be measured:

1. the qualified traffic a listing would directly provide your site with.

2. the qualified traffic that a listing would provide indirectly through better search engine ranking thanks to the back link.

Everyone will agree with what I have said so far! The disagreements start to come as we try to drill down and work out how to quantify these 2 parameters. The first is reasonably simple. Future traffic is not measurable today. It’s a guess, and the directory owner will not tell you how much traffic the directory is sending out in a particular category or subcategory. So this first parameter can only be measured after spending time and or money on submitting your site.

What is useful is if you have more than one site, try a directory, and if you see traffic coming your way thanks to the submission remember that directory!

Since the first parameter is not quantifiable it’s the second parameter were all the action is at. PR of the linking page, quality of the surrounding sites, quality of the directory as a whole, number of inbound links, …. there are a lot of possible factors to measure. That’s why toolbar PR is the way at the moment to classify directories.

Any other way is a LOT of work. So not having the time nor inclination to spend so much time on this I went to my bookmarks and pulled out the following site:

http://www.seomoz.org/tools/page-strength.php

It would be great if someone decided to use this tool for measuring directories.

I have to do some submitting shortly for this site, and I may do it for a limited list.

Share This

This is a realy interesting thread going on over at Webmasterworld that is looking at the listing of directories in order of value, and how to define value. What is most interesting is to see how some clever people in the SEO field and internet marketing in general have completely different looks at this.

Here is the link ….

http://www.webmasterworld.com/directories/3113098.htm

Share This

Thomas is the super mod over at the specialist directory forum http://info.vilesilencer.com/forum/index.php. This interview was done over messenger and all I have done is correct some spelling. Its a great read and very insightfull.

TheDirectoryBlog:
1. How did you get involved with Dans forum?
Thomas:
Long time ago, I saw the link to Dan’s list somewhere. I was just starting my submission service and it struck me to offer it to the Vilesilencer visitors. Dan accepted my proposal, and through time, I became more closely involved with his list, namely helping him moderate the forum.
TheDirectoryBlog:
So you offer a submission service. Feel free to url drop. Do you own any directories? Which ones?
Thomas:
I work with established clients, most of them for over 2 years, and don’t have time for much more. Thus my public site http://www.seothatworks.com/ is kind of abandoned. I also own a directory or two, but these are usually serving me as a test beds, either to test new ideas, monitor the situation on the directory market, or get inspiration on what’s hot, that’s why I’m not very keen on publishing their urls.
Thomas:
I’m not even promoting them anywhere. I just “had to get one” so that I can keep abreast in the business, that’s it.
Thomas:
Oh one more unique I own, but feel ashamed of the long approval queue, www.typodrome.com. It’s built around the idea of using typos instead of keywords. 95% of the submitters don’t get the rules and can’t read, though.
TheDirectoryBlog:
I think all directory owners can understand that.
TheDirectoryBlog:
What kind of work do you principally do for your clients?
Thomas:
All my stable clients are SEO pros. They know  exactly what they want. So for them I serve as a “submission monkey”, ie. they deliver all the data and I just submit. Except I care highly about the approval rates so I’m much more careful and think about what I do, than your usual “link pusher” that just cares to stick the link somewhere. That’s also why I preferred to work on my own, though I had plenty of opportunities to grow the business, I could have easily employed 5-10 people.  Than there is a second kind of client, the irregulars, that just need one site and accidentally find out about my service.
Thomas:
Those I help with titles, descriptions, and adjustment of their sites for the purpose of increasing the approval ratios.
TheDirectoryBlog:
So you use Dans list I suppose….
Thomas:
Absolutely. That’s why I also spend the time helping him keep it up to date.  I had clients pushing me to use some 1.000 and more directories long list, and it was nothing but a catastrophe as most of it was junk from a SEO point, and free submission point. Well…I also use a private list for certain purposes, which contains only the top directories. Select clients don’t want to see their link in “every junk directory around” if you understand what I mean.
TheDirectoryBlog:
jajajaja, sure, that’s clear enough.

TheDirectoryBlog:
Off the top of your head please list 5 key steps to owning a quality directory.
Thomas:
1. use good script that has an ongoing development
2. make it unique, though in my eyes unique design alone doesn’t make it, unique content is king
3. strict approval rules
4. work on it regularly, and I don’t mean approval-wise, but promotion-wise
5. the top of the top directories don’t rely on what’s submitted to them. because the top sites that are out there, don’t submit. so the top directory from user point, has to have a content that’s built by editors and not submitted
TheDirectoryBlog:
Thats GREAT, especially number 5.
TheDirectoryBlog:
That seems to me to be the best single idea. You cover a niche area, get the best sites into it.
Thomas:
well…niches…. I think there is a future for those who are sick of the junk general directory business that seems to rule now.
TheDirectoryBlog:
Its clear to me that the number of general directories has really exploded …
TheDirectoryBlog:
why?
Thomas:
Directories are growing, despite my firm conviction that less and less people are using them (in favour of search engines). In my eyes, there are two reasons for this:
1. It is an extremely easy to enter market, there are ready made directory scripts for free that take 15 minutes to install, with category structures included and templates, you submit your directory to a list or two, and that’s all one needs to do. People write content for you, or pay for inclusion, and all you have to do is to sit and review the submission queue.
2. They are very popular for plain link building purposes, as a “more legal” kind of link farm or link exchange.
Thomas:
So it takes 15 minutes, and you have gotten yourself a frequently visited site with no or little effort. You can make it to Alexa 100.000 without any effort what so ever.
TheDirectoryBlog:
Seems to me the road to search engine hell …
TheDirectoryBlog:
I mean by that …
TheDirectoryBlog:
surely the search engines will (i think they already do) downgrade the value of a link from a crappy directory?
Thomas:
I don’t follow this aspect myself much, mainly because in my eyes, directories are past, not future. But they still work. As for downgrading…I think with the BigDaddy update, something to the extent of strong downgrading went on but was later reverted. They still get indexed and such, even though many end in supplemental index largely.
TheDirectoryBlog:
Wow, thats good, I will have to go and look more closely at the supplemental issue with directories in mind…
Thomas:
A link from a directory is for sure much less valuable than a regular kind of link. Especially with Google. But for MSN for example, just directory links are still fine and in some niches all you need to get ranked well.
TheDirectoryBlog:
Yes I agree MSN appears to be the most receptive to directory links at the moment. I suppose  that will change as MSN search gets better.
Thomas:
The supplemental index is a major factor that’s omitted by many people that pay for links. I wouldn’t pay a dime for being listed on such a directory, even if I had an unlimited budget.
TheDirectoryBlog:
I would argue that some links from quality directories are very valuable, the problem is that the great majority of directories are crappy.
Thomas:
Exactly. There are definitely some high quality directories, which will continue for the foreseeable future, no matter which algorithm changes are implemented to devalue the power of links from bad directories. To me,  a link from a high quality directory is as good as any other authoritative site.
TheDirectoryBlog:
Yes I agree.
TheDirectoryBlog:
So I guess that is why we are both fans of Dans seo friendly free directory list, since it is clearly going in the quality matters direction rather than shear numbers direction…
Thomas:
Dan was going that way right from the start. He only included SEO friendly directories, while others included just about anything that had a submission form on it. Then as the market evolved and become easier to start up a directory,  it become apparent that further steps need to be taken, that’s why he is going to target only top500. If you ask me, I would think top200 would be even better.
TheDirectoryBlog:
Or a listing in order of quality and letting the user decide how far down the list they wont to go.
Thomas:
Yes. That would be ideal. In fact, in a marketing light I don’t think it is wise to only limit to the top40 or 200. The top list should become the shop window. There should still be a list of “others”, if for nothing else, than to serve the majority of people that say “wow, this list has 1000 directories”, or 3000, but for the moment  few are saying “wow, this is high quality list” except of course the truly professional SEO´s.
Thomas:
Yes it does look like people in this market are generally looking for quantity, not quality.
TheDirectoryBlog:
I think that as this market matures quality will become more talked about, rather than huge list numbers.
Thomas:
Quality is being talked about by professionals. I work for a professional SEO who recognized that a long time ago and only submits his clients to a select, high quality list.
Thomas:
There are some submission services that also submit to select lists, but that’s another story, because that list is created on how easy it is to submit to the directory, or they mistake quality for speed and approval ratio. Which is far from my definition of quality. So backtracking, there are people that recognize the quality, mostly professionals working for reputable clients who don’t like to be submitted to bad directories.
TheDirectoryBlog:
At the end of the day this comes down to return on investment (time and cash)
TheDirectoryBlog:
It seems clear that many people are still not maximising there ROI because they see value in poor quality directory back links when there time would be better spent on fewer better quality submissions.
Thomas:
Return on investment would be a factor if the directory economy was normal. But it is heavily effected by people from low income countries, mainly India. They provide a very cheap workforce, no matter whether you employ them for directory submission, or whether they set-up a directory and sell $3 for a lifetime featured link. They are exceedingly price competitive. They are one of the major factors why this market is where it is.
Thomas:
So if you got really low cost, you don’t care much about ROI because with such a low cost, ROI is still fine, almost no matter what.
TheDirectoryBlog:
Yes, I have used submitting services at 7$ for a site to be submitted to a list of 200 directories. I can honestly say I got what I paid for ..
Thomas:
What was the problem with them?
TheDirectoryBlog:
The quality of the directories was crappy, my site buried in page 22 of the category, my site surrounded by poor qualiy sites,  many times not even in the right category … but it only cost 7$.
TheDirectoryBlog:
So we seem to be in agreement that quality is more important than quantity in directory submissions.
Thomas:
Absolutely.
Thomas:
Being approved in the top 40 is way higher value than being approved in the rest of the 400 odd sites in the directory.
TheDirectoryBlog:
So the killer question is …..
TheDirectoryBlog:
Do you care to share with my blog readers those top 40 directories?
Thomas:
Haha. I don’t have it, but have something like that planned, which I will for sure share, as soon as I get my current obligations done. Anyway, it will be as biased as top 40 lists of other people. I remember Bob Mutch published a tool to identify topXX directories, http://www.seocompany.ca/, for example, and there might be few more.
Thomas:
I mean, I have a feel for what I consider the top40, when I go over the list, but I don’t have a selection, and I don’t have classification nor numbering etc….
TheDirectoryBlog:
ok, well thanks for all your time Thomas, its has been very insightful, and don’t forget us when you get that top 40 list down.

Share This

This is my first attempt to define what makes a good directory. So as a first attempt I think I am going to just list a series of factors that should not be overlooked.

1. Published editorial/submission guidelines.
2. Editors that stick to these published guidelines (aka editorial integrity).
3. Unique category structure (clearly if your a geographic directory thats near impossible)
4. Quality sites in the directory (whether submitted by site owners or included by an editor)*
5. Quality unique descriptions that help a visitor to understand what the site offers without having to click on the link.

Ok these five seem to me to me the most important. There are more, but I believe that by complying with these five indicators, the directory is firmly on the road to achieving quality status.

I can hear the clamour of voices claiming that I have forgotten the 3 most important factors, namely:

1. SEO friendly back-link to the included site
2. Google PR
3. Unique design But these are not mission critical for any directory.

SHOCK HORROR, this guy is talking cr@p, I can hear most of you thinking. No its not cr@p, its just I am trying to focus on the end user. The end user is not the owner of the web site that is included in your directory. The end user is the visitor that is looking for a helping hand in finding information and has come across your directory.

I do believe that a unique design helps set the directory apart visually from others, but the key concept is content. Quality content and not that’s its pretty. Quality content attracts organic back links. Quality content is good for the user, and that visitor will come back to your directory.

So for the moment that’s what I think. I suppose those with more experience than I will be able to show me the error of my ways!

*Its hard to define a quality site, but for the moment I would say a site with unique authoritative content would pass this filter.

Share This

How many directories exist who’s only value is a SEO friendly link to those that submit there sites. Even worse there are loads of directories that do not even do that! Lets forget about those directories that do not even produce a SEO friendly back link, there dead already and going the same way as the Dodo, but are just so stupid they have not realised it yet.

What future do nearly all the SEO friendly type of directories have?

Very limited. Those back links will in the future become completely degraded.

Why?

Well as we said before the only value is a SEO link for the website owner. I foresee the day that the major search engines decide that they do not wont there SERP´s been manipulated by these types of sites, and start to consider directories to be link farms. And link farms ended up like the Dodo.

If I was Matt Cutts (scary thought I know, but a mans got to do what a mans got to do!) I would simple stop all these sites from been able to pass PR. Simple. 

Why would I do this?

No new directories would be created with the sole purpose of offering a SEO link, because that has been corrected. And any new directory would have to offer some other value apart from been able to distort my ranking system.

Share This

Yes I know I just had a Heineken moment, but the creative juices were flowing! 

MattUK (I have dealt with Matt across the usual web master forums and though we have never met, he struck me as a nice guy) has just published a list of 3000 directories ordered by PR.

Jeez Matt, you must have had a really boring day doing that!. What made you do such a thing?

Here is the link to Matts list of 3000 directories.

Share This